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bay witch musings

~ thoughts on parenting, paganism, science, books, witchcraft, nature, feminism, unitarian universalism, herbalism, cooking, conservation, crafting, the state of humanity, and life by the sea

bay witch musings

Category Archives: gods

real is irrelevent

07 Sunday Apr 2013

Posted by thalassa in gods, pagan, paganism, religion

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

deity, gods, real, theism opinions

There I was, working on tomorrow’s blog post, since I’ve been a bit off-schedule and getting quite behind on my (online) box full of drafts (not to mention my offline box full of stuff to make into drafts), when I decided to procrastinate a bit by checking on new blog posts…

And then I happened across this little gem–I had planned just to leave a comment, but the durn comment was so darn long, I figured I’d just turn it into a post on its own!

Someone in my UU discussion group shared this story today about a student who suffered from doubt over whether Kwan-Yin/Kannon/Tara actually exists. In frustration, he asked his teacher for help.  The lama closed his eyes for a few moments, then replied:

“She knows she’s not real.”

I wonder how this might apply to Pagan deities.

~John Halsted @ The Allergic Pagan

There are so many layers to a statement like that.  I could probably approach this on so many levels it would take me a month to go through them all!  But, I think I’ll limit it (today) to the idea of “real” as applied to gods, and whether or not it even matters (admittedly, a subject I’ve broached  a time or two or ten).

philosophy

(from a UU campaign a couple years ago)


I’ve noticed that the idea of whether or not something is “real” isn’t even a big deal to a child. My daughter is 6, and the “reality” of the existence (or non-existence) of beings as varied as Tinkerbell, Santa Claus, Mama O’shen (her name for the Ocean-as-Deity), or Persephone is inconsequential and irrelevant in comparison to what we get from their story and what it tells us about our human experience and our interaction with the cosmos at large. My daughter can discuss and interact, for hours, all sorts of things with any of them, and it never even crosses her mind to wonder if they are there or not. And indeed, if you would ask her directly, she would tell you that they are not real, but that real does not matter, because it is their story that is important.

Perhaps we grown-ups spend too much time in our heads justifying our experiences and the time we spend having them, instead of just experiencing. Does it even matter that the gods are real or not? In the past 20 years, I’ve been a polytheist and a pantheist and an ambivalent agnostic…and its been my observation that either the gods don’t care, or I don’t, because my interactions with them haven’t varied based on the changes in those beliefs. They have, at times, changed–deepened, become more (or less) ecstatic, etc, over the years…but (if I am very honest and disgustingly introspective) these changes have been in relation to what I have needed, and what I have gone searching for, rather than as a result of my theological opinion in the existence and nature of deity.

To be honest, while I find such pondering to be intellectually interesting (though somewhat fruitless)…I really find them to be ultimately meaningless to my spiritual and religious beliefs and practices. Quite frankly, I don’t care that the gods exist or not. I have gotten to a point where my beliefs and experiences are not cheapened or enriched by either position. I do what I do, which includes prayer, offerings, reverence in worship, etc, not because I have faith in the literal existence in an eternal being (supernatural or otherwise), but because it works. It centers me, it enriches my experience of the world around me, it connects me to something bigger and greater than myself, and it allows me to bring those things home to my family, my home, and my community.

I don’t need for Sedna to be real to experience her, I don’t need to worship a literal Persephone to feel the relevance of her mythos, and the fact that Neptune might not actually be a eternally powerful divine dude that lives in the ocean doesn’t lessen my thankfulness to him for surviving another hurricane.   I don’t engage with the gods because of what they can do for me, or what I can do for them.  I engage with the gods because the act of doing so is my sacrifice, my symbol of my humility to those ideas and powers and forces that are greater than my tiny and cosmically insignificant self.  

It doesn’t matter if they are “real” or not, it matters that we find meaning in our interactions with them. It matters that those interactions better ourselves and our world.

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Sedna

07 Thursday Feb 2013

Posted by thalassa in gods, paganism, poem

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

sedna

Sedna, by Thalia Took

black eyes peer from blackness
hair like tangled seaweed, current tossed
framed in the gates of gleaming white bone
so young to be so cold
anger buried deep

encased in Ice
rage a frozen scream
hands hacked to pieces
cannot even brush her tangled hair
the dark is silent
the deep is still

She waits
Her blood flows in sticky metallic drips
eddying into dark cold waters
flows into the shapes
dolphins whales seal otter shark
keening as harpoons strike

she feels each hit
as if it were her own flesh
pierced

She waits
She sees Her children sinking, motionless
She sees their blood flow into the black water night

when She rises
who will pay Her price
who will brush her tangled hair

when the ice cracks
can you appease her hidden rage

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Saturday Musings

15 Saturday Sep 2012

Posted by thalassa in food, gods, herbs, pagan, paganism, tarot

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

danaids, paw paw, sassafras, six of wands, star trek, tea

First Tea of the Day: (freshly picked) Sassafras with orange slices

Why, oh why am I up and showered before six in the morning?  Oh, yeah…because I have so much to do today, starting with driving the hubby to a reenactment for the weekend.  Ugh.

In good news though, one of the many things on  my plate are about to be over today!  We have finally reached the hourly count down for the Luau at the UU fellowship we attend.  Somehow, many months ago, I got conned into heading it up…and thankfully, it is finally here!  One less thing on my plate!

Officially, I am still in Slow Blog mode, but not a total blog-cation.  I’m limiting myself to 1 or 2 posts a week, so I make sure I work on all the other stuff I need to get done (some of which I really don’t want to) in a timely manner.  If I’m totally honest here, occasionally I use blogging as a means of procrastination.

I want to go back to sleep.

Some random old blog posts…
Building a Salve
She Serves Scallops by the Seashore
DIY Field Press

Evidence of my nerditude: The hubby and I have been on a Star Trek: Deep Space 9 viewing spree for the past few weeks in our down time…and we are now in the middle of season 6–The Federation is getting ready to strike against the Dominion and the Cardassians to take back Deep Space 9 and free the Bajoran people from certain conquest.  Yeah, we’re Trekkies.

Deity of the Week: The Danaids

The Danaides by John William Waterhouse

Once upon a time the twin brothers, a man named Danaus had fifty daughters, while is brother (and king/founder of Egypt–at least in Greek myth) Aegyptus had fifty sons. Ageyptus wanted his 50 sons to marry Danaus’s 50 daughters, but Danaus was not fond of the idea and built the first ship escaping to Argos, from which his ancestress had originated. Danaus was chosen as the successor to the king on Argos, in a vote by the inhabitants of the island. Some time later, his brother came to threaten Danaus to honor his request for their daughters and sons to marry. This time, rather than cause a war that would cause hardship to his people, Danaus outwardly acquiesced. Privately however, he instructed his daughters to kill their new husbands upon their wedding night. 49 of the daughters followed the instruction of their father, and one did not. Depending on the source, that rebel might have been Amymone, or perhaps Hypermnestra (though they might have been the same person), who chose not to murder her husband because he promised to honor her choice to remain a virgin. Upon her disobedience, Danaus had her arrested and tried by the people of Argos, where she was allowed to go free after Aphrodite’s intervention. Depending upon myth, her husband (Lynceus) may have later killed Danaus in revenge. Allegorically, early versions of this myth (which end here) can be viewed as possible historical commentary of an ancient conquering, while later versions become tale of morality and cosmic retribution as well. The 49 daughters that murdered their husband end up in Tartarus with a decidedly sysiphean task–to eternally carry water to fill an urn with holes in the bottom (or alternatively to carry water to fill an urn with containers that have holes in them.

Tarot Card of the Week: Six of Wands

six of wands by blue

To sum up this card’s meaning in one word…VICTORY!
If the five of wands symbolizes the heat of battle or the fierceness of competition, the six of wands symbolizes the moment of victory where the champion is recognized in adulation by the people. It is a card of victory (or success) as well as the recognition of that success by the public or one’s peers. The six of wands highlights (to borrow a marketing idea) the importance of networking and personal branding, but carries the pit falls of arrogance and an over-inflated sense of self-importance. Reversed, this card may symbolize a loss of public support or a lack of recognition.

Herb of the Week: Sassafras and Paw Paw

sassafras leaf variations

While sassafras is available all summer long, paw paw season is right now at its peak here in Virginia. Both of these plants are native to the Eastern US and are common Southern plants. Also, they both have a long history of use that starts with the Native Americans, and continues in the culinary traditions of today. Sassafras also has a long history of medicinal use, as well as a tradition of use to ward off the evil eye in Appalachia.  Pawpaw on the other hand, may have has some medicinal and mystical qualities, but I have yet to run across any traditional uses for these things–and I have yet to figure out the best way to use it as well (other than to eat)…

Parting Quote: Live with intention. Walk to the edge. Listen hard. Practice wellness. Play with abandon. Laugh. Choose with no regret. Appreciate your friends. Continue to learn. Do what you love. Live as if this is all there is.
~Mary Anne Radmacher

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Pomonalia

12 Sunday Aug 2012

Posted by thalassa in food, gods, holidays, myth, pagan, paganism, recipes

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

apples, Pomona, Vertumnus

One of my favorite food (and therefore, kitchen) goddesses is Pomona, and it seems sort of appropriate to honor her at this time of year.  Pomona is a somewhat obscure but originally Roman goddess of orchards, fruiting trees, and abundance.  Her name is from the Latin word for fruit, pomum.  She is one of the Numina–the guardian spirits of the Romans.  She had her own priest in Rome, the Flamen Pomonalis and a sacred orchard outside of the ancient port city of Ostia.  Her festival, and that of her consort (Vertumnus), is on August 13*…which is Monday!

A Modern Pomona:

  • Thalia Took, artist and creator of the Goddess Oracle, has an awesome story of Pomona and Vertumnus on her site.
  • Patricia Telesco, author of 365 Goddesses**, suggests making a “Pomona oil” to wear when one wants to bring nature into their daily routine, by seeping the petals of any available (and non-toxic or dermatitis creating) flowers in warm oil, straining and adding some fruity essential oils.
  • JK Rowling gave Professor Sprout, one of her characters from the Harry Potter novels the first name of Pomona
  • The story of Pomona and Vertumnus from Bullfinch
  • Numinism, a modern Roman-inspired duotheist religion, celebrates Pomona and Vertumnus as the female and male aspects of their godhead.
  • Numinists (and some others) also (or instead) celebrate the modern festival of Pomona, Pomonalia, at November 1st.

*There is some suggestion that this day is actually the feast day of Vertumnus and Pomona just happened to be celebrated along with him as his consort, with her actual feast day falling on November 1.

**A favorite blogger of mine did a review of this book awhile back , which I found pretty accurate.  But, as I say when reading books…even the worst books can have some good ideas while even the best books have some bad ones.  I actually think the Pomona oil idea is decent in the context of modern worship.

Pomona: Goddess of Fruit by Janrique

Pomona, while associated with fruits and orchards in general, is often associated specifically with apples.  In our family, she is normally honored at Mabon, which we had been celebrating as the Apple Harvest in the past few years.  But, since she has her own feast day (and since we no longer live 5 minutes away from an apple orchard), I’ve made the executive decision to celebrate something else at Mabon and to have our own Pomonalia this week (probably on Thursday because I’m off work and get paid Wednesday, lol).   The apple is a pome, which is a type of fruit whose name also derives from the Latin pomum.  It was domesticated from a wild tree,  Malus sieversii (the crabapple is a closely related species) which originated in the west of Asia and its cultivation spread into Europe and eventually the Americas.  The apple is mentioned in Norse, Greek, and even Christian mythology, though the word was sometimes used in a general sense to describe any foreign fruits besides apples.

Things to Do with Apples:

Drying Apples
Apple Votive Candles
Alton Brown’s 10 minute Applesauce
Applesauce Cookies
Williamsburg Apple Cream Cheese Torte
Apples in Entrees
Monticello Apple Cake
Shrunken Apple Heads (optional for Halloween: in cider)
Barefoot Contessa’s Apple Crisp
Apple Dumplings, easy recipe that’t not from scratch
Apple Print Stamper

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deity from the middle…its messy and complicated

05 Thursday Jul 2012

Posted by thalassa in gods, pagan, paganism, religion

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

gods, pantheism, polytheism, views of deity

Many Pagans that I know of, particularly those who grew up in religiously restricted and even religiously hostile and/or spiritually abusive homes, choose to leave Christianity as much as a rejection of the Biblical vision of god as the new-found inspiration and rediscovered vision of the deities of ancient cultures.  I am one of the minority (or at least I assume I’m a minority based on my conversations with other Pagans) that came from both a quite liberal and even progressive Christian faith and from a quite religiously open-minded and open heart-ed family.  My change of faith came from a realization (at a rather young age) that, whether or not Jesus as Christ (literal or figurative) was “real” (mythically or historically), I didn’t consider “salvation” to be a worthy or even necessary goal of the human condition.  I have nothing to be saved from because there is nothing wrong with being human.  I also found that once salvation is taken out of the equation, the god of Abraham’s covenant isn’t any more compelling than a god of any other pantheon.  And really, I straight-up think some of those other gods are much, much cooler with far more compelling and powerful stories (I love me some Joseph Campbell).

Over the years, my theological opinion on the nature of god* has evolved from the Trinitarian monotheism of my childhood, into the duotheistic soft-polytheism common to eclectic Wicca of my formative Pagan youth, through a pantheon-specific polytheistic revivalism to its current incarnation of a hybrid pantheistic polytheism.  My beliefs about the existence and nature of god is a bit complicated, as I think it probably should be, for any reasonably logical individual that has none-the-less had profoundly spiritual religious experiences with deity.  I’m sure that my considerations on the nature of deity will continue to develop over time, but in the meantime, I thought it might be fun to ponder upon the current state of my belief in deity, and which twigs on the tree of Paganism that I hang my beliefs from…

When it comes to deity, I occupy a certain ambiguous middle ground in the Pagan continuum of belief (or just a Venn diagram of theological ideas).  In practice, I’m a polytheist (though I’m neither a hard or a soft polytheist since I don’t believe that multiple gods are either facets of one god or that they are literal and distinct beings), since I acknowledge and worship multiple deities.  In belief though, I’m more of a pantheist–but not entirely; and I’m not a naturalist, though I value that perspective, with my educational background in biology.   I’m also a fan of Jung and I don’t entirely buy into the idea that individual gods are literal, sentient and powerful entities capable of independent and direct action.  At the same time though, I really do think that there really is *something* else at work in the universe…I just don’t think we (humans of limited consciousness) are truly equipped to define it, though I tend to favor the idea that the *something* at work expresses “itself” in a myriad of ways.

So here’s the only thing I honestly know about divine beings, regardless of their nature (or indeed that *anyone* can know about divine beings):  There is no such thing as an objective event, fact or state(ment) that one can make about a completely abstract idea that is entirely subjective.   Because of that, there isn’t a single god that can be measured, weighed, observed, photographed, or otherwise independently verified.  Additionally, it seems that different cultures and individuals explain god in culturally relative and personally meaningful ways without any universal agreement or cohesion.  To me, this indicates that the ultimate nature of god is ultimately unknowable…except to the individual’s perception of and experience with god (and this includes the option that deities do not exist at all or that they all exist simultaneously).  Intellectually, I believe that god exists as infinite possibilities (well, infinite possibilities in the sense of global population over the history of humankind and any other organism that might be able to conceptualize an idea of god–which I find to be a totally interesting thought exercise).

*this is not meant to be a serious graphic*

With that being said, spiritually I believe in a Divine Universe.  I’m not saying that I think that the Universe is (merely) a deity, but rather that the Universe itself is the physical embodiment of what it means to be Divine and Sacred.  As such, I believe that the creation and on-going development of the Universe (via scientifically evidenced means) results in   individual forces which humans have since named and personified as deities in historical and culturally specific ways.  Just as elements of the Universe are constantly in a flux of creation/destruction/existence, so are the individual multiple forces of the Universe (and of humanity), which we often call gods and worship as such (this includes the Abrahamic god which evolved from a single, limited deity from a single, limited pantheon to an all-powerful single god).  Consequently, I think the collected stories of humanity about these forces and their interactions are incredibly important as a means of reflection and introspection about the human condition.  And yes, this means that I believe in the development of “new” gods and even that I think that perfectly valid and authentic spiritual and religious experiences and traditions can even originate from modern ideas and fictional writings (another popular discussion on Pagan Forum that crops up from time to time),

I have mostly chosen to pass on the question of whether or not gods are literal beings (does that make me an agnostic polytheist?) because I don’t find it to be spiritually significant.  I’ve had strong feelings on both sides of this issue at different points of my life, and I’ve found that there isn’t any difference in MY relationship with the gods whether I think they are really “real” or not (which of course, begs the question…what is “real” anyhow?)  If I am forced to take a stance, I don’t find it too difficult to allow for the possibility that these forces (which can be worked with) are active themselves and have modeled themselves for us as much as they have been molded by us into images/symbols/forces that are most appropriate to the time and place and people where they are worshiped.  But I draw the line at a believe in them as literal and distinct human-like entities that are independently acting and interested in human affairs for their own amusement or edification–that sort of polytheistic view seems no more realistic or relevant to me than the old white guy with the beard sitting on the throne in the clouds of so many Christian denominations.

Instead, it really doesn’t matter to me if gods are literally real or subconscious projections of anthropomorphic symbols or something in between…or if they don’t exist at all.  And it definitely doesn’t matter if someone else has come to a different conclusion on the nature of god.  One, many, few, none, all-encompassing, limited, etc…its no skin off my teeth, as long as someone isn’t an ass about it!  For me, god is a matter of pragmatism.  The only thing that matters is our actual experience with the them and what we do with our experience with them.  Hopefully, that we let our experience with god help us become a better person for one another.  Some people never experience god while some people experience god incredibly realistic and even tangible ways.  I fall somewhere in the middle, and I fully acknowledge that my experiences might just be a figment of my incredibly fertile imagination.  But its ultimately my experience of god (from myth to direct experience)–as a Universal Divinity and the myriad of ways in which it is expressed in the world we live in that informs my own humanity, for the better.

* I use god and gods fairly interchangeably to denote the idea of the many different views of deity in general, rather than as a statement of plurality (or the lack thereof).  When I use the word god or deity, I am saying that something is a spiritually and/or culturally referenced individual entity of power (which can be symbolic or literal).  A god then, in my book, can be anything from Thor or Athena, or the big G, little -od of the Bible, Torah and Koran…to a Divine Universe or a Universal Divine…to a nature spirit or ancestral spirit.   If I am referring to the Judeo-Christian/Islamic deity, I generally refer to him as the god of Abraham, rather than using “God” as a proper name (see here for why), and in semi-protest to the way the word ‘god’ has been  co-opted by the Abrahamic faiths to mean an all-powerful, all-knowing, etc single deity (a good book detailing this evolution is A History of God by Karen Armstrong).  Often I will use the term The Divine or Divinity as a means of differentiating the bigger-picture idea  of “god” (which is sometimes pantheistic/panentheistic) from individual, named deities (including the aforementioned “God”).

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None is as free as one born on the wave, Born on the wave to the song of the sea; None can be brave until they are free, Free of all, but the call of the sea.

Month By Month

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About me

*Just an FYI: If you are wondering why there's not been a new post recently, new posts have been a bit slowed down by the new job...*

I am a (occasionally doting) wife, a damn proud momma of two adorable and brilliant children, a veteran of the United States Navy, beach addict, (American) Civil War reenactor and Victorian natural history aficionado, lover of steampunk, canoeing fanatic, science professional (and amateur in my preferred field), graduate student, and semi-erratic blogger.

If you have found this blog, you have also figured out that we are a Pagan family.  More aptly, I would describe my theological belief as a pragmatic sort of pantheism with a polytheistic practice and my religion as Unitarian Universalist Pagan.  I practice a bioregional witchery and herbalism (foraging ftw!), mainly working with domestic and elemental magics, and I have a thing for sea deities. For the most part, my blog covers a bit of all of these things, with a bit of randomness tossed in from time to time.

I enjoy playing with my kids, chillin with the hubster, swimming, being nerdy, the great outdoors, NCIS re-runs, chai tea--iced or hot, yoga, trashy romance novels, singing off key, kitchen experiments (of the culinary and non types), surfing the internet and painting.  I also like long walks on the beach and NPR's Science Friday and Neil deGrasse Tyson.  I love to read, sleep in on the weekend, and make the Halloween costumes for my kids every year. I am passionate about watershed ecology and local conservation efforts and vehemently anti-disposable plastics. But most of all...I'm just trying to take extravagant pleasure in the act of being alive.

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